Stop the New Tolls
If the new tolls are put in place on the Sakonett River Bridge, it will be a burden on every household in Newport County.
I know there is a feeling in Newport that "Hey, we gotta pay to cross the Newport Bridge." I can't argue that, but truckers don't have to, produce trucks don't have to, school busses don't have to. They use the Sakonett Bridge for free, they put a toll on that, well, it will cost $8 dollars for folks to come and go, that's eight bucks that will not be spent in local businesess, and it wil stop alot of daytrippers and families.
Any school team leaving the island will NOW have to pay a toll, guess were that money is going to come from? Property TAXES. So Newport County is going to lose money from tourist dollars not coming in, which in turn leads to job losses and your taxs go up, do you really want this to happen?
I don't know why Paiva-Weed let this go when she cold have stopped it cold, but it's an unfair burden attempting to raise money for the rest of the state on the back of Newport county taxpayers. Join The fight, Sign the petition.
John H
10:01 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012
Show me proof, rock solid statistical evidence. of the impact- and it's extent as you have described. Staten Island isn't a baren wasteland; traffic- and a significant percentage of the nation's GDP moves at a brisk pace on the Ohio and Indiana Toll Roads. How come this toll will be the end of the world?
Tolls on sports teams will cause property taxes to rise? Really? You might as well blame every case of aterial sclerosis on the cholesterol and fat in Vermont cheese (props to Chris Buckley for that analogy).
You, like all the other whiners, are looking for a free lunch. Sorry, but that store closed, for once, in Rhode Island. What you need to do, instead of crying in your beer, is start the drum beats of accountability for the members and staff of the Toll and Bridge Authority. To do that you'll have to stop rubber stamping every Tom, DIck and Harry that buys off the local Democratic Party's nominating committee. If you're union, try walking into a voting booth with an open mind instead of a closed wallet. If you're liberal or progressive try imagining, for just a moment, that maybe your ideology isn't always the answer when dealing with people and taxpayers on a macroeconomic basis. If you're a conservative, stop using Jesus as your voter's guide and if you subscribe to the tea party, well, get a life.
Jim L
11:03 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012
Well glad to see you just gave up, Many of us do not intend to, good luck to you
Jim L
11:09 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012
The Plan in place at the moment will be between exits on rt 24 before Fall River, this they say will let locals get around, WRONG, people who work in Ma. anywhere will not swing into Tiverton and cut threw Fall River, same deal with ANYONE who works on the island and lives off it. Everything trucked onto the island will see a price increase to pay the toll, So once again it is not just a simple toll, it's a price increase for every person in Newport county, Stand up!! Don't take this, why should Newport county pass more than the rest of Rhode Island??Why Did Piavaell us all out?
John H
1:16 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012
I agree about the toll location. Since I moved here I have questioned why a high span canted construction bridge wasn't tolled to begin with- especially with a salt water envrironment, RI's continual mucking up of public works funding from the general ledger (c.f. Jamestown bridge), the derelict inspection history and its importance in island commerce.
I seriously doubt that "everything" is going to go up prohibitively. This Chicken LIttle type argument serves you no good because, when the masses see that it isn't the end of the earth, they will just tune you out. Things imported to the island ARE supposed to cost more- that's the intrinsic cost of living on an island. I acepted that part of the bargain when I moved here, why haven't you?
What amazes me is that the anti-toll crowd has created this broad coalition of opponents (mostly misled or ill-informed) for what is so practically necessary it boggles the mind. Meanwhile, they ignore many other parts of the bait-and-switch bargain that is the social contract of Rhode Island.
Where is the outrage about the cost of water (7 bucks next year!)? The 40 year history of mediocrity in public schools, such that the best are merely average nationally? The epidemic level of drunk driving? The continual dependence on Federal transfer payments and tourism for growth? A two decade slide in jobs, GDP and income per capita, despite declining population?
I didn't give up- RI did. That's the reason why we are quitting RI.
Mr.Kyle
5:32 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012
The Newport Bridge opened in 1969. It is now 43 years old. I moved to RI in 1973 as a teenager. At that time the toll on the bridge was $2.00. My question is, why did it take 42 years to raise the toll on the bridge to $4.00. I believe we wouldn’t be in the mess if they had increased the bridge toll much earlier. I lived on the island and moved to Bristol in 1987. The toll on the Mt. Hope Bridge, if you bought tokens, was a ridiculous .10 cents. That didn’t even pay for the toll booth employees. To even think of putting a toll back on the Mt. Hope Bridge is ludicrous. I will tell you what is going to happen if they put a toll on the Sakonnet River Bridge. People will take the Mt. Hope Bridge to avoid the tolls on the Sakonnet River Bridge. Rt. 136, Metacom Avenue will become a parking lot as it did several years ago. People were cutting through to avoid going under the Government Center in Fall River when cement was falling on cars. Traffic was backed up for 4 miles. Bristol locals starting cutting through the center of town to avoid this backup. But then so many were doing it, traffic backed up in the middle of town.
Why does the toll have to be $4.00 both ways? How about $2.00 and an EZ pass. It truly isn’t fair to the islanders to only have one free way to get off and on the island. What are these people thinking? Obviously they are not.
John H
9:38 am on Sunday, August 5, 2012
Have you travelled Metacom lately during regular business hours? They've already shelved plans for widening the stretchs in both Bristol and Warrent into the very distant future. If Bristol puts up additional traffic control at RWU it will take, easily, an additional half hour to taverse. If it forces people at the north end of the island to take business to Bristol County RI instead of Bristol County MA then the state comes out a winner.
Unless you have definitive proof your allegations of mass alterations to traffic patterns is nothing more than proof. I know there are those who cite the 520/90 bridges in Seattle but in that case both bridges are freeways and take people to the same geographic destination. If you are so sure of your allegation you will be happy to share with us the percentage of northbound cars that travel to a) points west of Fall River including Providence b) points north to Boston and c) points east including the Cape, New Bedford or the armpit. Do you really expect us to believe that people coming from the North and East (Boston) to Newport will divert from the direct line to some series of back routes? Unless your starting point is south of Taunton I can't get my GPS or Google Maps to route thru the Mount Hope bridge as an alternate (they both send you over to 95/4 and the Pell bridge). Again this is just specious postualation.
Show Me The Data otherwise your just part of a legion of locals who can't accept change good or bad.
Jim L
7:18 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012
Mr Kyle, right now the plans call for a Booth between Fish rd and Stafford rd, this woulsllow the many residents who work in Fall river, have medical POINTMENTS grocery shop,etc , avoid the tolls, while tat is very easy for me to do, can you say the same? can many others in Middletown and Newport say the same? So i could just sit here and laff at you folks who thing this is no big deal. I don't care leave the island, your gonna pay more for good paying the toll, the folks who make money on the tourist dime will see a drop in income, that's my problem with this kids going to college with get bagged, many other things will be hurt, but if i choose i can just sit back and let the rest of Newport county get hammered, I'm not built that way i care WHO CANNOT AFFORD THIS HIDDEN TAX sorry my fingers were yelling! I'm from an old Navy family and you took care of others around you, and at 61 i consider newport county the entire thing my home. and just like when the navy pulled out long ago, and the island rebuilt its self, this is about to happen again, but how do you stop evey family from paying $8..00 bucks just to drive to Newport? the answwer is NO TOLLS
John H
9:20 am on Sunday, August 5, 2012
More Chiken Little claims. People in Jamestown have not whithered and died off, in fact property values and rents have remained more stable and gasoline. While I will agree that the 2/4 dollar toll is far too high (based upon the funding need and the current traffic level) the fact remains that tolls are more than appropriate for *special function* bridges ('special' being the operative word here because this is an island).
This is a matter of economics, that is, choice. You have made a choice to remain on the island. However choice doesn't constitute logic nor is it a substitute for common sense. Service to your country or your impending senior citizenship ought not to be cause for exemption in a country founded on the principle of equality in the eyes of the law. Too often here on the island that is not the case, sadly which is why the number of families (not on the Navy dole or federal/state safety net) are declining.
Please explain to me how this is hidden? A hidden tax is something people pay and don't know they are paying it. Are you referring to the hidden tax of increased basic costs in a community because citizens tax dollars are subsidizing gratis benefits to the Navy and dependents. I suspect it's something you didn't plan on when you started collecting a pension.
You and other reactionaries need to start broading the extent of your choices or start shouldering the new burden- service to your country isn't a right to trump the bigger picture.
Jack Baillargeron
10:32 am on Sunday, August 5, 2012
John H, you have no clue on the traffic in Bristol. Living close to Metacom, I can see it out my back window. The traffic is backed up all the time and soon to be a lot worse with all the pedestrian crossing lights be put in.
Not to mention the connecting road of 103 in Warren that is getting a lot of those same crossing lights.
The traffic downtown is just as bad. Truck traffic is enormous on Metacom since they are not allowed on Hope Street for thru traffic. Mr. Kyle is correct on the Falling concrete; it was unbelievable backups from the Mount hope bridge to the Warren town line at that time which is about 4 miles, same with downtown.
Have no clue what you mean by the (Navy Dole), care to expand on that? Mr. Kyle is also correct on the Newport Bridge since 1969, the tolls should have been gradual increase in line with inflation index.
A hidden tax in this State is a tax that no-one new about until after it was passed, which is common in this State as it is in the Federal level ( Health Care Bill). No other State can blame DEMS like we can, for everything wrong with this State. Do you believe in the Constitution? You are aware in the 1st amendment? It gives the people rights for Redress against the government.
That is all these citizens are doing. Utilizing there free rights. You can disagree. Why demean those who are also expressing the same rights in the Constitution?
John H
12:29 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
As someone who took economics from the school entrusted with Ludwig von Mises's papers and library I can tell you, most definitively, that the toll is NOT a hidden tax. Your description trancends ignorance. A hidden tax is an indrect one paid unknowingly. For instance- the federally subsidized and artifically high turnover of Navy dependents and personnel in the Newport area results in an artifical demand for moving, strorage and long term rental housing; that translates to higher prices paid by those whose taxes pay for said subsidies but who do not directly benefit from them. THAT is a hidden tax. A toll is a fee for use of some thing, presumably for the maintence and upkeep of what ever is being, that assess costs directly and solely to the beneficaries of its use.
Yes indeed the traffic on Metacom can only get worse- that was my point- and Bristol could easily make it worse simply by putting in those lights and stymiiing attempts to widen it. That will deincentivize those wishing to use it as an alternative. Moreover If I were a Tiverton resident living north of the bridge I would start directing my efforts towards getting that toll booth/collection point put in BEFORE the first exit. Freebie exits are bad news.
As for "demeaning": I'm sick of Rhode Islanders' of all stripes using the label 'hater' to blunt vicious criticism that is otherwise merit bound; my example of a hidden tax is explaination enough of the Navy dole (or would you prefer Pentagon dole?)
Jim L
12:39 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
John one problem with your statement about living on the island? I don't live on the Island, Tiverton like Bristol is on the mainland! And i don't understand that crack sbout the navy either.As for the hidden tax issue, i have seen no economic studies done on the price increases that will take place in Newport county ALONE, not anywhere else in the state, perhaps you should start a YES TOLLs petition, let me know how it goes
John H
12:53 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
Don't need to. Don't get me wrong. I think the toll sucks, bigtime because I frequently travel to Fall River. However I am willing to have the clarity and vision to see it's necessary: RI can't take care of it's things so it has to have a nursemaid in the form of tolls.
Jim L
12:42 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
I live within a 1/2 mile of the proposed toll booths and i can avoid them easy, But i cannot avoid the price of goods raising because the bridge folks want to feed off more tourist money
Mr.Kyle
1:21 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
John H, I travel Metacom Avenue every single day. I know how bad the traffic is. Roger Williams has it's traffic light, Bristol is a mess right now with one way on both Hope and Thames St because of road work. We moved to Bristol in 1986. Have seen the traffic increase steadily over the past 26 years on Metacom Ave. The only time it is not busy is late at night to early morning.
By the way, prices on the island are more expensive than in Bristol County, most noticibly gas. All my in-laws live on the island. My FIL and MIL moved to Newport in 1959 to The Point. It was a dump then. My MIL still lives there as does my BIL and his wife. Nieces, nephews and grandnieces all live on the island. When you have lived on the island for 59 years. Yes they made a choice to live on the Island. Seven of them were born on the Island. All the people on the Island made the choice to live there.. So what, you think they should pack up and move away?
As for Jamestown, they can easily go to Kingstown, Narragansett, etc. They don't have to come to Newport unless they work there.
I am not whinning. I'm saying that it is not fair that the people on the Island may now have another toll to pay. Are the Islanders supposed to support all the bridge repairs for the entire state?
Also, I was not saying that people from out of town or tourists would take back roads to avoid tolls. They would pay the tolls to visit the Island. Locals would take back roads to avoid the tolls.
John H
12:47 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
You missed the point competely- I expect bad traffic to get worse and thus blunt toll oppenent's argument that many will avoid it.
As for having free exit's- you don't want them. Really, you don't. I would expect- given its demographics- that Fall River and nearby areas on that side of the Tauton River will be the source of an inordinate volume of additional local traffic. Given that city's demographics this isn't a crowd that will bring positive change to Tiverton considering that Newport's weekend police blotter is a litany of FR offenders.
As I said before this is just a matter economics, and economics is choice. You dont' take care of bridges well. This is a way to take care of a bridge that shares the burden fairly on those who benefit only. All choices have consequences and as long as you accept them then stay on the island or don't. That is where the free country part comes into play but you can't rig things to only get the choices you want.
Jack Baillargeron
1:42 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
Well John; It is hardly being on the dole well in the military. Your reasoning of a hidden tax is no different than mine is, except I refer to the actual Bill it is in before being approved. (Pass it so we can see what’s in it). Let’s keep it simple; if you know it, obviously it is not hidden. The Navy brings a lot of money to the area, though in the form of the Defense Industry than the actual Naval Base. Navy Housing is out sourced now and is about 10% of what it once was.
The Private Company’s in Defense Industry have high wage jobs. This State would not have a problem with Bridges if it did not drive all the manufacturing out of the State. This dependency on tourism is no different than Greece and RI will suffer the same I suspect. Gambling is a joke as much as the Lottery lies in 1970’s. The State is top of the list as worst State for business in the Country, controlled by DEMS for over 78 years straight and in the top 5 for corruption.
It is not surprising to anyone the reasoning for the infrastructures collapse. A $1,000 toll will not solve this. The States dependency on the East Bay for revenue has reached un-sustainability in my eyes anyway. That is the reason people are fed up. I see no reason to deride others who only want equality in the East Bay when it comes to infrastructure. Those who do not speak are not heard. Oh the Metacom Project was not shelved, the money was taken away to build the Jamestown Bridge conveniently by a guy named Chaffee Sr.
Jim L
8:53 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
John H i don't know what your promlem with the navy is, nor do i care, the navy is part of the services that protect this county and a majority of them are vastly under payed, Navy families on the island will be hit by this toll to, even harder than the folks who make a living wag in the private sector, Not a hidden tax, nay, we are just suppose to leave our doors open at night so the rest of the state can walk in at night and take the money left in our pants
Jack Baillargeron
10:28 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
I would add Jim L, that many do not realize the lower ranks, which there are not many now, and for the most part are short term, qualify and do get food stamps. how sad is that for our military dying every damn day. I hope people do not start posting it is all Bushs fault on the wars.
It was, but that is in the past and cannot be changed. The militay goes where it is ordered and have nothing to do with the politicians creating the problems and keeping their hands in by tying the hands of the military to do their jobs with the most restrictive and shameful rules of engagement in history.
John H
10:31 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
The Navy was an example for the purposes of illustrating what a hidden tax actually is. Would you prefer I had used the example of federal fishing regulations (promulgated and enforced with tax revenue) which the add $.095 per pound to the cost of lobster? Sorry that my examples have left you so befuddled. So once again to recap: The toll is not a hidden tax. The shady manner in which the Sakonnet bridge legislation was handled is just "politics" and not unusual for almost any state in the union (except those do-gooder progressive pukes in Vermont).
I don't really have a problem per se with the Navy they were just a handy example to illustrate an example. I don't particularly care for them or the entire armed forces- like most radical neo-conservative/libertarians I consider the US military to consist of nice people in pursuit of mediocriy in service to an unredeemable political establishment- as such they are, front and center part of this country's problem. Just look at what the the navy's dole has done to the island: poor schools (nationally, the second strongest correlation with poor school performance is proximity to defense installations), strained budgets for basic services not to mention periods of economic privation and the increasing over-reliance on zero-sum, zero-growth economics of service sector tourism. And now the island will have to brace for the sequestration cuts come this January... yes the DoD has made the island a veritable paradise! Anchors aweigh!
Jack Baillargeron
12:10 am on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
So let me get this straight, John H. The people in the military are the cause of the problems on the Island and in this Country?
That is the most insane thing have ever heard. You have the right to think that obviously, but it is the most uninformed opinion I have ever heard also.
I would love to know how you think this Country survived as long as it has, and just how long it would without the military? On second thought, don't bother.
I will say however that your thinking that the Navy is somehow responsible for failing education is insanity also. The failure in this State of education rest clearly on the Teachers Union Leadership and Federal Department of education exclusively.
Are you aware that Rhode Island has the 5th highesty paid teachers in the Country and we are 41st in Education. Now there is a quandry I have yet to hear a reasonable explaination of.
John H
10:24 am on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
Jack,
Let me tell you something. Go to Jacksonville, Charleston/North Charleston SC, Norfolk and you will find one thing in common lousy schools. A little back story: when we first pondered coming to Newport the first reaction of all three professionals we told, an MD, a PhD and a LCSW was oddly the same: you know towns with military bases have lousy schools? After digging deeper into the issue I learned that this has been the conventional wisdom for over half a century. 50 years ago the base commander at Newport asked the Cluny sisters to start a private school for this very reason.
I draw very few distinctions between a military installation and a government housing project. Both are deeply subsidized, are net consumers of tax revenues services and goods, and are a drag on local GDP by putting growth industries at a competitive disadvantage, and then there is that education problem. All that would be well and good if the country got something besides fifty ceaseless years of mixed results. But you seem to revel in mediocry and want someone else to pay for it so you have, indeed, found a home in RI.
Jack Baillargeron
10:40 am on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
Have been to all of those places, however that has nothing to do with the Navy, who pay for every student of a military family by individual cost per student to the area's they are in.
So you can't blame the military for that they pay just like the taxpayers do, only more by the way. I will tell you why some of your assumption and others are true. Because local politicians squander the money, rather than put it where it was suppose to go in these areas.
That also is not the fault of the military.
You also always ignore the fact that these people die for you! But even though your hate for them is so obvious, I assure you they will continue to honor their oath to protect you from all enemies, foreign and domestic. Your welcome by the way. Yes some of my family members paid the ultimate price and blood sweat and tears just for you.
Get off your high horse as you are in such a delusional State of denial, even John Stossel and Ron Paul would distance themselves from you lol.
One track minds like yours rarely have solutions, just rhetoric founded in only the facts they want to see or hear. Have fun in your little utopian world (they do not exist though by the way), it is not reality, but it is your world in your mind evidently, so enjoy. It is after all still a free country, even though you seem to want it to collapse more than it already has in my opinion.
Jack Baillargeron
10:21 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
There is land around New England and even in this State where a State of the art Refinery could be built. A large Opportunity was missed on Aquidneck Island not to long ago. That being the Navy Tank Farms. A perfect Storage area for Heating Oil, and Gasoline To the tune of millions an millions of gallons. But instead some of the Tank farms were imploded, some are still there and the towns only seem to see more land to develop for tourism and luxury housing, or the wasteful open space towns seem to be enamored with of late or gambling as the fix all. Massive tax breaks to housing developers yet again negating any real contribution to the tax base.
Where were are State and Local politicians on this? No-where to be found. Our State representatives, love to take credit for things they have nothing to do with; like Defense Contractors winning a contract that increases jobs. They do not decide what company builds what, that would be illegal. The Pentagon and other agencies do.
What happened to the fishing industry here and in MA? The State of RI and MA destroyed it along with the Federal level. I believe almost any local, knows at least one fisherman who was put out of business or now barely breaks even. All done in the name of tourism or special interest. The answers are there, just ignored by our politicians and sadly many taxpayers, who do not support the changes needed.
The burden is on taxpayers because of these and many other things. High paying jobs are ignored.
Jim L
11:12 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
Jack if you don't want to help that fine but why do you seem to be hindering us, and please lay off picking on any of the arm forces
Jack Baillargeron
11:15 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
What are you talking about? how am I hindering and what is this crap about picking on the military. Did you even read what I wrote Jim L geeze, not one thing does what you are saying and I have supported this petition since day one of the first post.
DSilva
5:30 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
For what it is worth Jack, while I don't always agree with your positions, I always find them reasoned and thought out. I have never thought of you as "picking" on anyone.
Jim L
11:22 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
Could or would someone from Newport place this on the Newport council agenda for a vote of support' this has to keep rolling or we will just get rolled over by the folks upstate, If this takes place you will be just about forced to buy an instate transponder or pay the $4.00 to get of the island,At least folks in Jameston can live their island without paying a toll, and nevermind "you can just go over the Mt Hope bridge" you do that it takes you at least a 1/2 hour to get to another major highway like 95 or 24, even if you never leave the island or Newport county your kids will end up paying. To say prices won't raise is just silly, , the tourist money on the island is made mostly on the weelend, while folks comeing and going to work 5 days a week will be paying $2.00 dollars more a week than somebody who goes day tripping till they tire of the $8.00 bucks to come and go
Jack Baillargeron
4:12 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Seriously Jim, could you expand on where I am hindering or picling on the military I take this very seriously and think I deserve an answer to an accusation like that from you.
DSilva
4:22 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
JIm says" The Plan in place at the moment will be between exits on rt 24 before Fall River, "
Jim that is spreading misinformation. That is NOT the plan. That is but one option being looked at according to Rep. Edwards..
Jack Baillargeron
6:02 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Honestly I try not, however my writing skills come across that way at times and I cannot prevent it ;-}. But honesty is something I value a lot. Thank you for your compliment.
Also as A vet, I am the last person to pick on the military, coming from a family of vets also ;-}.
DSilva
6:38 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Your welcome. Also, thank you for your service to our country (as well as your family).
Jim L
3:48 pm on Sunday, August 19, 2012
That is the only option being looked at and it's to appease the folks in his district who voted for him Where does your home heating oil come from?. when your septic is pumped where does it go? how many folks who live in ma. and work on the island will be bagged? Everyone on this island who wants to use a major highway instead of going thru Bristol will be bagged and tagged got Business in Providence? get a transponder. going to the PPAC get a transponder? people from Providence coming to anything in Newport County, get a transponder going to CCRI ditto, Your kid needs surgery at hasbro? $8.00 bucks round trip this is such a money grab it's amazing are you just goota lay there going "oh well" sign a petition